For this writer, it doesn't get much better than the three passionate and dreamily wonderful albums Mancunian cult heroes THE CHAMELEONS made during the period 1983 - 1986. However, their traumatic split following the death of manager Tony Fletcher in 1987 left a wound most people believed couldn't or wouldn't heal.
Therefore, few could believe it when the band's core quartet got together for a series of rapturously received shows in 2000, which would go on to become a full-blown reunion with the band releasing an excellent new album "Why Call It Anything?" during 2001. Since then, though, the band have again gone their separate ways and legendary bassist/ vocalist/ songwriter MARK BURGESS has recently announced he is about to set out on tour supporting New Model Army with his new band MARK BURGESS & THE SONS OF GOD.
Mark's new band are a trio, also featuring an as-yet undisclosed drummer and supremely talented guitarist/ instrumentalist/ producer YVES ALTANA, who seasoned Burgess fans will remember from albums such as "Paradyning" and the colossal, but largely unheralded "Venus" made under the name INVINCIBLE in 1999.
Although no-one could dispute the evergreen quality of The Chameleons' work, there's certainly an indefinable chemistry between Messrs. Burgess and Altana which means that the news of this new band is enough for long-term fans pulses' to begin racing and is more than reason enough for W&H to have a chat with Mark himself.
This writer's conducted more interviews than he's had hot dinners over the years, but speaking to Mark is surely one of the most enjoyable, rewarding hours he's ever spent relating to music. For his part, Mark is open, honest, thoughtful and always the most wonderful company you could wish for. It turns out we have lots to talk about relating to the past, the present and hopefully the future, though inevitably The Chameleons form the starting point for our conversation.
Mark, I guess after what happened the first time round you'd probably never say never, but I assume that The Chameleons have finished for real this time?
"Yes, I'd say it's pretty much done," sighs Mark.
"It's difficult to know what to say, because whatever I say it's airing dirty washing in public really. Suffice it to say everything culminated in a gig we were scheduled to do in Athens. It's really difficult because I was committed as I'd signed a contract and had spent £3-4,000 on outlay, only to be told the day before that the rest of the band weren't going."
"But I couldn't pull out, so I had to go," he continues quietly.
"I tried to cobble together a set but walking out on stage in Athens was one of the most horrible things I've ever done because you could immediately see the disappointment on peoples' faces - we'd never played Athens before - when they saw they weren't going to get The Chameleons they wanted. I can't really describe the awfulness of that feeling."
"Anyway, when I got back, I read on the 'net that Reg, Dave and John had left the band, which wasn't great as you can imagine, especially as despite the Athens fiasco, I'd still hoped we could work it out. But it's so difficult....I can understand it was very hard for Reg (Smithies - guitar) because he'd just had a new baby born at the time, and I know he felt embarrassed about it, but once again it left stuff unresolved. I mean, to this day I haven't had contact with Dave (Fielding - guitar), though I have since sat down with John (Lever) and we've spoken. So it was quite a thing, really and I've pretty much been working alone since that time."
"But this time it doesn't feel unresolved to me. I mean, I went back to forge friendships which - to me - were probably the dearest I've ever known and I'm really glad we got back together because I know it meant a lot to people who came to see us at Manchester Academy in 2000 and all the other shows we played. And it's brilliant we could make those things happen."
Absolutely. But Mark has also been working on a book which - I assume - will detail his highs and lows with both The Chameleons and his other musical projects before and after. Are we talking an autobiography here, Mark?
"Yes, it is an autobiography really," Mark considers.
"My career with The Chameleons is central to it, but it's not primarily about that. It's a kaleidoscope of ideas that interests me, really. It began as en exercise in learning about word processing and off it went! I threw the question of whether I should finish it out and I got massive feedback from fans etc on the net saying I should. But it's been a very stop-start thing, I've done so much and then put it down to do something else along the way, so I've had to revise it as I've gone along. It's something primarily for myself before any other consideration, really."
Who's publishing the book?
"I'm going to self-publish the first edition myself," Mark replies.
"I know there's an audience who do want to read it, but if the first edition does well then we'll see. What I do know is that it should be done by December this year and it's gonna be called "View From A Hill" (closing track on The Chameleons debut album "Script Of The Bridge" -ed)."
Fantastic. Well there will certainly be a lot of interest in the book coming from these quarters, for sure. But let's talk about what you're doing right now. You've been putting together a new band called - for now at least - Mark Burgess & The Sons Of God. Yves (Altana) mentioned that you'd called him pretty much out of the blue, so what prompted you to decide on this now?
"Well, I have a philosophical view of certain conjunctions coming into place," replies Mark.
"And to be honest we had been talking about it on and off for a year or so, or at least the possibility of doing something like this. Actually, I was quite shocked Yves hadn't been involved in anything much since we were doing Invincible in 1999. I've always regarded him as an immensely talented individual and I know he's been frustrated by the lack of opportunities he's had too."
"Somehow, though, for both of us the timing previously didn't fall into place, y'know...the opportunity was never there for both of us at the same time until now when eventually everything crystallised."
Yves is indeed an amazing musician - and indeed anyone who searches out Invincible's brilliant "Venus" album will soon discover that fact - but what do you feel are the special qualities he brings to your music?
"Well, he's a really accomplished musician and producer," Mark replies.
"He knows exactly what he wants and knows how to get it. He's not experimental, he works out what he needs and how to achieve it. He's energetic and focussed and has tremendous energy. I suppose if I had a criticism it's true he can sometimes monopolise the whole recording process (laughs), although at the same time one of my down sides is a tendency to laziness, so he can get me to work. That's definitely a good thing! But Yves is so versatile...when we played live with Invincible it blew everyone away that he plays keyboards with midi pedals at the same time as playing guitar live."
I remember, having caught a particularly incendiary gig at London's Borderline at the time. But then - for me - both "Paradyning" (made as Mark Burgess & Yves Altana) and Invincible's "Venus" rank among rock's great, unheralded albums. Regardless of commercial considerations, you must be very proud of those albums?
"Yes, "Venus" especially was very satisying for me," Mark reveals.
"It was very evocative of the things that made me excited about bands and being in bands in the first place, even if half the stock was destroyed by (distributors) Pinnacle and it had very limited circulation," he finishes ruefully.
"I'm proud of "Paradyning", too," he continues. Yves' contribution to that one was very important, too, especially in terms of arrangements and production. We ended up with only 2 weeks to record and 2 to mix - not out of choice I should say - and I had the material all written for that before he came on board. "Venus", though, was a true collaboration of ideas. By and large, though, I'm happy to say I don't regret ny of the records I've put out or have been involved with."
You'll be debuting in the UK during October supporting New Model Army, but do you know Justin and the lads from way back?
"I've only met Justin (Sullivan) once, at a Red Sky Coven gig when I was playing with (late Sound frontman) Adrian Borland," Mark responds.
"But I admire him as a songwriter, a spirit and a person and when the opportunity came up I grabbed it with both hands. To be honest, they're one of the few bands I'd be happy to open up for. It all came about because I have a friend who was promoting gigs in the North-West (of the UK) and he found out Justin was up for having us come on tour. Mind you, it might pose a few logistical problems with us not having a label at present (laughs)."
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But that won't stop an optimist like Mark Burgess. Indeed, The Sons Of God are going on to play a headline show at Bury's Derby Hall on October 28th - scene of Joy Division's infamous 'riot gig' in April 1980. Do you feel more pressure playing to your home crowd, so to speak, bearing in mind you hail from the North Manchester area?
"That's a good question," Mark ponders.
"I certainly used to feel that, but then having spent the last 3-4 years living in relative exile (Mark now lives in Germany - ed) it doesn't feel like home quite so much. It's still a place I love and I tend to go back for short spells. It's great for 2-3 weeks, then it starts to drag me down a bit. It's certainly a bit special with it being the Derby Hall, though - and it'll be exactly 20 years since the day I first played there too! Fancy that. I was at that Joy Division gig you mentioned too - it was a very strange night."
Without wanting to ask you to give too much away, will there be a lot of new material or will you be playing predominantly material from "Paradyning" and "Venus" at these forthcoming shows?
"Well, new material is mooted certainly," says Mark.
"That's one of the reasons I'm excited about this, because it won't just be going out with back catalogue. I have a few solid ideas for stuff that might perhaps have been intended for another Chameleons album originally, as well as new stuff Yves and I have been thinking of. Until we release something new, I can't be too specific, but I'd certainly be less inclined to do this now if there was no new material."
"I mean, in terms of Chameleons songs it's a tricky one," he continues.
"I love the songs and they're still totally relevant to me, though if we play too much we'll get labelled as cabaret Chameleons or some such thing, so its a very fine line. With regards to Invincible's material, that's still relatively unheard anyway, so it would be great to play some of those songs certainly. We'll see."
It's great to hear you talking about the possibility of a new album. I imagine this will depend on these shows going well, but is there a real possibility of a new album from you next year?
"Yeah, I hope so," says Mark.
"One of the reasons for wanting to go out now is to touch base with people who can help us make a new record. I mean, whatever I do there's only so much I can achieve entirely independently. Everyone needs investment, unfortunately."
Yeah, we all know about that one...
"Yeah, but certainly there are some interesting possibilities being thrown around at present...the USA next spring, shows in Germany, Italy and France possibly before that. It's potentially an interesting time."
Let's hope all these and much more comes to fruition. But Mark, you've been one of this writer's favourite lyricists for years. Tell me more about your writing: your lyrics are always very personal and passionate, nowhere more so than those on "Venus". Do you ever feel like you give too much of yourself away?
"Possibly, yeah, but I never regret that,even if I do," says Mark quite openly.
"I've never looked back and regretted that. I tend to work very instinctively and with hindsight often only then see where some things come from. Besides, I like people drawing their own interpetations from my songs, that's what it's all about. But I'm glad I'm not afraid to open up. No element is taboo for me. My general theme has always been self-exploration and no realm within that is too frightening to take on for me. It's important that is always the case."
Of course we live in a very nostalgic world where Morrissey's lyric about "re-issue, re-package" etc seems to be the golden rule, but it never ceases to amaze me the way The Chameleons work attracts so much posthumous attention. These days, the compilations seriously outnumber the official studio albums. Do you ever feel you've somehow inadvertently contributed to your own myth Mark?
"Not consciously, no," he replies, though he takes a moment to frame his answer.
"Though to be honest with respect to most of the compilations out there, I do feel the live albums are valid. As for the sessions albums, I can truly say that if you'd said to me at the time that 20 years later people would be chasing them down I really wouldn't have believed it."
Clearly, this is something Mark can still hardly get his head around, but - lest we forget - The Chameleons were being touted for success along the lines of U2 and to a lesser extent Echo & The Bunnymen during their 1980s heyday. Mark, this is a purely hypothetical question, but if the dice had rolled in your favour back in the Geffen days, do you think The Chameleons could have dealt with success on a scale akin to U2?
Mark's reply to this one is unequivocal.
"No, we couldn't. With U2, the level of strength and closeness has always stemmed from their friendship which has always seemed unshakeable. That's the secret at the heart of U2, whereas with us our rleationship was precarious at best. So to be honest I don't think different circumstances would have conspired to bring about a different, or a better outcome."
"There again," he continues, "Maybe that volatile element was a necessary component to our music and at the end of the day it was the music that capativated people, wasn't it?"
Indeed it was, and so it remains, I'm very glad to say. But then for me Mark Burgess has never really received the recognition he truly deserves. In recent times, the Gallagher brothers have been known to express an admiration for The Chameleons and the fact you've inspired feverish cult attention has never been in question, but you've often appeared as outsiders whenever the history of Manchester's music scene is considered and written about. Does it piss you off even now that you've not received more recognition?
"Erm...yeah, I guess it does piss me off," says Mark,
"But then it's consistent (laughs). I mean, you have to remember that even when we played to 1000 people at the Hacienda we never attracted the elite or the Mancunian intelligentsia, if you like. We were seen more as a curiosity."
"To me, though," he finishes, " like The Stone Roses after us, we reflected the ambience of the times, even though we seemed to be out of step with those around us. I mean, the likes of New Order and the Hacienda and so on...people plugged into a more affluent element. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, but I always felt that people who were into us related to us in a more universal way. It wasn't just representing Manchester culture, it was much more personal to them and their world."
And so it is to this day. It's really, really good to have you back Mark. We eagerly await further developments.
(Photos courtesy of Martin Bosker: www.slightly-tilted.com)
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